October 1, 2012
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I JUST HAVE TO LAUGH….
Except, it really isn’t funny. I’ve been planning on doing a blog like this, but I haven’t gotten around to it. Just so you know, this is long, but I implore you to read it all, I think it’s important.
I would like to discuss the concept of national pride. Why do people have it? I know it’s a very serious concept for some people, and they get a bit overzealous about it. But why?
Let’s just go through this a little bit. So, the concept of nations is fairly new in human history and the history of the world. In my history class, I’m learning how the lines of the countries moved across time and space. There are many countries now that didn’t exist in 1500, especially in Europe. Thus, the lines on a map are completely arbitrary. Someone in power can say, okay, these two countries are merging and becoming one. Or, they can say, this country is being divided into three. The British did this in the Middle East. Before it was Texas, it was still Mexico. You can’t argue with this. It happened.
Now. Let’s take The United States. What happened before it was the US? The European settlers came in and took over the land. How did they do this? By slaughtering millions of innocent people who were already here. You cannot deny this either. It happened. So our ancestors got this country with the blood of millions of people on their hands. A true atrocity. A sick horror. It happened.
How can you have pride in this? Doesn’t it twist your gut with how disgusting it is? Do you just say, oh, well that’s all in the past…water under the bridge..so to speak..?
So some people say that we’re a great nation, the best in the world. We do good, supposedly. Let’s take a look at some of these “good” things.
-Bush invaded Iraq on the premise that they had WMDs. This proved to be false. Do we really believe they received faulty information? I thought we were so great…boy, did we really mess that one up…
-Bush started the National Defense Authorization Act, and Obama strengthened it and extended it, which says that the government has the “right” to spy on its own citizens AND hold someone indefinitely with no trial, supposedly for the sake of finding terrorists (oh, the democrats and republicans don’t work together? Only when it encroaches upon our civil liberties…). Does anyone honestly believe it’s being used for the stated purpose? It’s obviously an open door for the government to openly spy on everything you do without a warrant. Besides that, the definition of anyone who threatens the government is pretty vague. ALSO, I believe the Constitution states that the People reserve the right to overthrow their government if they think the government isn’t acting in the best interest of the People. So, this very idea is what the government is afraid of, and under the NDAA, any action or discussion or plan to overthrow the government is a threat to the government. Under the NDAA, anyone who thinks the government isn’t acting in their best interest and wants to overthrow it, the people involved can be held indefinitely, without trial. Doesn’t that seem Unconstitutional? The Constitution was written to PROTECT the People from the government. I think it’s foolish that more people aren’t afraid of the NDAA. Do you honestly believe it can’t and won’t be turned on you in a heartbeat?
-We invaded Afghanistan on the premise that it’s a terrorist nation and the person responsible for 9/11 was hiding out there. Now, people seem to forget or ignore the fact that the US MADE Osama Bin Laden. They PUT him in power!! They provided the weapons and funding for him to remain in power. The country of Afghanistan was used in proxy wars during the Cold War because of it’s location. That country has been completely manipulated by outside forces for decades. Do you honestly believe that fact doesn’t harbor some resentment? Is the US the only country that can retaliate for wrongs done to them by other countries? Even if you DON’T believe that 9/11 was an inside job, you can’t tell me that the US didn’t have this coming. Be honest with yourself here, truly.
-Besides the fact that we keep invading other countries and thrusting our culture, views, and beliefs upon others, Americans seem to think that we are a Free Nation. How so? What does Freedom mean? Does it mean the NDAA? The striping away of your civil liberties one law at a time? The fact that you have absolutely no Agency?
For these reasons and more, I find the concept of national pride useless. Tomorrow, this “country” could cease to exist as we know it…there could be new lines drawn. It’s happened in the past. And really, I think anyone who thinks we are a great nation should really think about why they think and feel that way, and look at the whole picture. I’m sure any reason that’s given, I could find some sort of immorality it’s based on given enough research and digging (which, I am totally not going to do, because I don’t have the time..but I’m just saying..).
The reason I bring this up is because someone shared Mitt Romney’s status, saying something about the fact that this country does things for the greater good, and she added that she will always be proud of America. This was my response on her post:
Forces for good? Does that include invading dozens of other countries for the purpose of Agenda 21? Does that also include the near genocide of a native people that was here first? I find it hard to have pride in arbitrary lines that were drawn on a map by people who literally slaughtered millions of innocent people for the purpose of taking over land. But I forgot, that’s “the American way.” Now it’s just being done overseas. NWO.
She sent me a private message, saying that she didn’t like this comment, and she copied it in the message, as though I didn’t remember what I said. This was my response to her message:
Why? It’s the truth. That’s what was done to the native Americans. And, lines of countries are arbitrary. Before it was Texas, it was still Mexico. And look at the nations of Europe. The lines of many of those countries is fairly new. France started as a very small country. The British drew the lines of the Middle Eastern countries. Part of the reason there’s so much turmoil in Afghanistan is because that’s the land that was left after the Brits got done drawing lines on the map and they clumped 5 different cultures together that don’t have the same values, thus there’s been fighting for leaders of the country with different super powers backing different leaders of the land. The US has done nothing but insert their beliefs unto other peoples. Agenda 21 is real. It’s their intent to create one large super power government.
(BTW, Agenda 21 is *supposedly* voluntary…but, is it, really?)
This was her response to the above: I disagree, nothing personal… I would just rather not have that on my page, but you are entitled to post what you like on your page, I just don’t really want that on mine… I love America, at least the America I grew up in and believe we can have it again with the right leadership…. thanks tho…have a great week
This was my response: I would like to know what it is you disagree with, since everything I just said is true.
She never answered me. I believe it’s when I initially responded to her message is when she deleted and blocked me. THAT is the part that made me laugh, that she deleted and blocked me. But, honestly, you can’t defend your position? You can’t defend your thoughts? You can’t answer a simple question, what is it you disagree with? It’s for this, that it’s really not funny. There are people saying these kinds of things, and making a stand, but it’s all meaningless unless you can explain why you think and feel that way. Is this the kind of people we have in the world today? That just think and feel things without truly knowing the truth? That turn a blind, ignorant, arrogant eye to the things that have happened and are happening?
If you’re still with me, thank you…I would just like to know what your thoughts are on national pride. Do you have it? Why? Why do you think or feel a certain way? It’s in the best interest of the future of humanity to really take a look at these hard questions and think for yourself, and be able to defend your stance. Otherwise, it means nothing.
Comments (42)
1) We’re not the only country in the world to have done any of these things. Countries march upon other countries all the time and do whatever they please. We are no different.
2) Yes, the way the European settlers treated the natives is disgusting. But we obviously can’t change it, so why dwell on it? The past is the past for a reason.
3) A person can be proud of their country and not necessarily agree with everything said country does. And ultimately your friend was right ~ America typically tries to do things for the greater good. You can’t let a few fuck ups like Dubya and Mittens skew your perception. And maybe she has a defense for her position, but can’t quite convey the words to express it.
You’re more than welcome and entitled to have your own opinion. It doesn’t mean you have to go and try to knock others down for having one different from yours. And from the looks of your facebook interaction above, you could probably stand to be a little less aggressive when stating yours.
Every country has its demons, it doesn’t mean it, as a whole, is tainted.
I am a proud American.
You are absolutely right. You folks better start coming up with good reasons for your destruction. Oh yeah… I forgot, you don’t need to explain anything to anyone, you have the power, you do as you please. I’m not mad, I just wish I was white, rich, and had a hot blonde chik to give me oral at nights.
The reality is that societies have been killing each other off for longer than we have history. Tribes slaughtering tribes for almost any reason, though skin color or religion are the most common. Every society today has it atrocities that they try to forget. The indigenous American Indians are no different, they have their own stories of warfare and genocide. The Aztec’s were notorious for wiping out villages and either enslaving the populations or simply using them as human sacrifices. Even the current boarders in Europe are mainly products of the 1st World War after hundreds of years of Prince fighting Prince over the best lands and resources. Yes, the changes made in the middle east have been divisive, but even there most of what happened has just been continuation of the wars they have fought against each other long before anyone in the “West” started interfering. Every society has always has some rationalization for what it’s done, in fact, every person rationalizes their own acts daily.
My point is that it isn’t what has been in our past that should define you we are, either as an individual or a nation, it’s what we choose to do today. Every choice we make is what defines who we are. If we choose to follow leaders who make choices we don’t agree with we are still sanctioning their acts.
But I also agree with you that all that history should never be forgotten. Where we came from is the only true measure we’ll ever have of any progress or failure we can can judge ourselves by.
@chronic_masticator - So, just because we’re not the only country to do wrong, means that it’s okay to act immorally? But I see that no one has actually answered any of the questions I posed. The information I gave are the reasons I personally do not believe in the concept of national pride. Instead of giving your own reasons either way, you’ve decided to nit-pick at what I’ve given. And, if by telling truths to get people to think deeper on why they think the way they do…if that’s aggressive, then so be it, but I honestly don’t think it’s aggressive at all. People *should* think deeper on subjects, especially topics such as these. And I didn’t see any examples of anything America has done that’s for “the greater good.” Anything that seems good, has a hidden agenda to further their own gain. Also, I’m not trying to get people to have the same opinion as myself. I’m simply trying to get people to really think about things that matter. Like I said in the post, if you don’t know why you believe in what you believe in, it becomes completely meaningless. If you believe it, you should be able to articulate it…otherwise, do you truly believe what you think you do?
@UnconventionalButterfly - So since every country has its demons, we’re supposed to turn a blind eye to wrongs committed, when they happen? When I hear something like, everyone has their demons, it seems to speak of things in the past…but the examples I gave are current, in recent history, things that are happening now. The only one that was really in the past was the Native Americans. So, are we battling current demons? Does that include the slaughter of innocent lives by sending drones to the Middle East for the sake of killing terrorists? How does one begin to justify this? The atrocities committed by governments throughout history is nearly an endless list that keeps growing every day. No, not the entire country is tainted…but the government is representative of said country, thus whatever the government does has an effect on the view of the country as a whole. That’s why some inhabitants of some countries hate “Americans.” We’re looked at and judged as a whole.
@Grannys_Place - Why? I don’t mean that to be condescending, I’m just wondering why.
@RulerofMasons - Power corrupts.
@WalkingaNewPath - Well, based on the choices of today, I still wouldn’t say we as a nation is anything to be proud of, if I did believe in such a thing. No leader has the best interest of the People in their hearts. They’re all corrupt, being bought by the leaders of the corporations that keep them in power.
I have pride in my country, but not necessarily for what it is today. The pride in my country comes from the fact that this was the first country whose constitution was built on the premise of natural, individual rights and freedoms. That’s a big deal. One that doesn’t get enough attention.
@WaitingToShrug - Yes, that is absolutely true…and it’s moved so far away from that, which is sad. If I weren’t an Anarchist, I would be Libertarian, so I wholly agree with the initial agenda of the Constitution, and part of that was to protect the citizens from the government…not the other way around, which is how it’s being used today. Sad.
Boundary lines are ephemeral, but countries are just an extension of our need for social organization. The ultimate solution is a World Parliament, actually freely elected by the people. That will take a few more years to set in motion. First, we have to get rid of the remaining dictators. the last thing the planet needs is an Antichrist, or other tyrant.
I can understand why the woman reacted the way she did. It’s kind of like someone posting, “I love Albert” and you coming by and saying “Oh but he got into that bar fight last year and he kicked someone’s dog, etc.” It just feels like a random attack.
I think our country is pretty messed up. However, I think we’re still trying, we’ve still got a shot at being one of the best places in the world to live, and I would rather push toward renovation than annihilation of our government.
I like Ron Paul’s foreign policy and think that time should be spent on actual defense rather than offensive strikes around the world.
@RighteousBruin - Okay, but what’s to say that these elected officials aren’t corrupt like the people we have now?
@lanney - Why is it an attack? Why is saying truthful things to try and get people to See and Think deeper an attack? If you’re going to say something such as she did, wouldn’t it only be natural to think that there are those that don’t agree and will speak their minds? If you’re not prepared for someone to speak out against your ideas or to disagree, maybe she shouldn’t be saying anything in the first place…unless, of course, someone is a one-dimensional person who can’t handle opinions that differ from her own, which appears to be the case, given her reaction. If someone is going to talk about such things, that you support a candidate or have a view, be prepared to debate. And I’m not meaning a debate in which people break down and start name calling and demeaning, but an intellectual debate in which both parties speak their side and either they agree to disagree in the end, or someone concedes.
@MrTrololo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqAF-Alc7CM&list=PLyKXzxtKsvakK8sg9lfzBhxky64T7tWBC&index=11&feature=plpp_videoI LOVE this video…I’m not a Libertarian like he is, but this is all about his views on foreign policy, and I agree with a lot of what he says. I don’t know if you’ve seen this before…but it’s pretty awesome.
@crazy2love - There are always bad eggs in every single country, does that mean every country is crap? No. The USA also has it so much better off than other countries. Would you rather live in Africa where you have to live in a small hut and worry about your children getting taken by the rebels, with dirty water, hardly any food, no medicine if you get sick?
Sure, our government is fucked up, but be thankful for what you have. Be thankful you can snuggle up in a warm bed at night.
@crazy2love – I never once said it was okay. You came to that conclusion on your own. And I didn’t give any reasons one way or the other because I simply don’t care either way. And yes, you did come off as aggressive. Still do, actually. And you really haven’t made any new points, either ~ just repeating stuff that you’ve heard in your classes. People also tend to not pay much attention to conspiracy theories.
@crazy2love - Yep I love the “what if” speech
:D:D:D
The concept of national pride is stupid, regardless of what nation you live in or your nationality. I’m an ex-American, no love for America, but no love necessarily for where I live now or where I’ll live 10 years from now or whatever (I plan to live in several different countries over the course of my life). I just don’t understand the concept of pledging loyalty, love, etc. to any federal government power. My loyalty is to myself and my conscience, not to any given collective authority, authority figure, or race/nationality.
In short, I have no national pride, and never will, regardless of where I live.
@UnconventionalButterfly - That’s what people always try to do…compare our situation to others..but you really can’t do that. Saying that we’re better off than Africa (which, by the way, the US government has a very significant hand in keeping the nations of Africa poor) doesn’t mean that our situation can’t be better. Each situation is unique, and it does no good to compare them. They are different..it’s like comparing apples and oranges. Yes, I’m thankful for what I have, but I strive for more..for true Freedom.
@chronic_masticator - I haven’t learned any of this in class, I’ve done the research on my own, and the only “conspiracy theory” I’ve indicated is NWO…which, isn’t a conclusion that’s that far out there. The UN publicly lays out Agenda 21 and what it entails. Is it really so far off to conclude that the main objective of Agenda 21 is New World Order? A system in which there’s one major ruling power over the world? Just because it’s not publicly stated? Because really, if you look at Agenda 21, it dictates what nations and the people in them are supposed to do. And only part of what I said was repeated, not everything. And aggressiveness is subjective, not objective…a matter of perspective. There are people that would say I’m not being aggressive. I read the entire post to someone last night, and the comment at the end was, “well said.”
@MrTrololo - :D I’m going to Libertopia….sooo excited!
@secretbeerreporter - That’s pretty much how I feel. Also, I really think someone should only have pride in something they themselves accomplish..loyalty to myself.
@shadow320 - Heh, there’s a lot pages on FB set up that focus on the power of knowledge…one of the is called Knowledge of Today. I don’t hate the people…I just wish more people would See.
It sucks growing up, doesn’t it? When you are a child you believe everythng they tell you & then you start to realize that everything they tell you isn’t exactly the truth. Don’t hate our country or the majority of the people, hate the government who has become so selfish & greedy that it can hardly function anymore. And be glad that your eyes are now open & they can no longer pull the wool over them. Knowledge is power! Ü
PS- Do you ever read Agnophilo? They have really good insite on all the political stuff going on right now.
@crazy2love - “Well said” doesn’t necessarily mean you weren’t being rude to your friend. The majority of the time, it simply means that you stated your points clearly. And to me, your little Facebook discussion reads like a Christian and an atheist telling each other why the other is wrong. Either way, someone is going to feel attacked, which I’m betting is why your friend removed and blocked you. But that’s neither here nor there.
If you really want to go into America’s involvement for the greater good, how about we look at foreign aid? The US pays out roughly $58 billion a year through about 20 different agencies. We’ve given money to Afghanistan, Israel, Pakistan, and Egypt for peace and security, which enables them to combat drug traffickers and terrorists and also helps to prevent the manufacturing of WMDs. The majority of the money we send to Russia and the entire amount we send to Cuba goes toward promoting democracy and human rights. Afghanistan’s money also goes toward education, infrastructure development, and maternal and child health care. Half of China and Nigeria’s money goes toward the fight against HIV/AIDS. And don’t forget about all the food and medical care we send to countries such as those in poorer Africa.
Personally, I’m not going to hold a grudge against America for things it’s done several hundred years ago. It’s done and over with now, let’s just learn from our mistakes and let it die already. We can’t be that bad of a country if we still have people trying to get past our fences. And, given the right leadership, I think we can be a pretty damn great country again.
First of all you write a good article.
What has happened down through history is if you do not agree with me, we have a war and kill you.
This is not right, and this is coming from a Nam Vet.
WE need to know the history that you have stated here.
We the people from Europe, and they slaughtered 1,000 of people in the name of peace.
This is not peace, this is not freedom.Just because someone disagrees with me, is it right to murder them?
This is what Countries do day in and day out. Not only the USA but other countries.
We need to have peace.
The reason we do not and the next part comes from a Religious point of view.
Sin came into the world and everything got messed up.
The Garden of Eden was the perfect place.
Until the Saviour comes back we will not have a perfect peace.
We the people have messed it all up and shame on us.
National pride, I think comes because we think we are the best Country in the world, and we help all these people and we do this and that.
But do we really help all these people?
We have homeless, jobless, hungry people, in the USA
Shame on us.
We murder and kill peoplel each and every day.
National Pride? How can we have this when history shows we murder, kill, rape, steal, etc. All in the name of the USA.
We should ALL be ashamed this is happening. But it seems most are not. We go on with our day as though nothing is happening.
I have respect for things in the USA but to have National Pride in the way it is now. NOT AT ALL. Bro. Doc
@chronic_masticator - It may sound like an Atheist and a Christian…but she didn’t say anything of significance. Why is it rude to question the foundation of someone’s belief? Isn’t it the purpose of the human being to strive for further knowledge and consciousness? The greatest aspect of being a human being is our wonderful, incredible, astounding minds, and a part of that is constantly challenging ourselves and each other to think in new ways…to question foundations and the basis of schools of thought. Anything less than that is a waste of what could be a great mind. The mind is capable of so much, if only people would give it a chance to grow…and a part of that is having rational discussions and debates that question things. If someone isn’t willing to participate in that growth isn’t doing themselves or anyone else any favors.
Africa is poor BECAUSE of the US and other industrialized nations. They went in and colonized but did it in a haphazard way that really didn’t help anyone. In addition, the US and other wealthy countries loan African nations money at interest rates that are far too high for anyone to ever pay off. It’s in the best interest of the US to continue to charge astronomical interest rates to these poor nations, thus keeping the US government in control of other nations. They only “give” aid to them to make it seem like we’re doing something good…while behind the scenes, the government is doing these people a huge disservice. It’s what China is doing to the United States right now. The US government owes China $1.2 trillion. So how are we giving money away to these people that we don’t own? Did you know that China probably owns your birth certificate? Your birth certificate is public property, being bought and sold on the market. In essence, China probably owns you and millions of other people in this nation…they own your name.
Power corrupts..so I don’t think there will ever be the right leadership. They are all bought and sold by the almighty dollar and the Power Elite.
@crazy2love - People don’t have to explain themselves, to you or anyone else. Pushing the matter is rude.
And this: ”…China probably owns your birth certificate? Your birth certificate is public property, being bought and sold on the market. In essence, China probably owns you and millions of other people in this nation…they own your name.” Lol. If that doesn’t scream crazy conspiracy theory, I don’t know what does. Everything you’ve said so far has been rattled off before by every other college student who doesn’t want to be controlled by “The Man,” which leads me to believe you’re just repeating crap you’ve heard in school from teachers or other students. I have yet to see a single original thought anywhere in here.
Yes, our government is corrupt. That does not mean that everyone who works FOR the government is also corrupt. Obama and Clinton are the first to pop into my mind, as they’re the most recent presidents to have ever given a damn about all of America’s citizens and not just the rich ones. Yes, Obama signed the NDAA. He also explicitly said that he didn’t agree with all of its provisions ~ specifically the provision that allows for indefinite detaining of US citizens. The NDAA is the bill that funds our military. No military funding = no military = America is a fish out of water. His hands were essentially tied. And the worst thing that Clinton ever did was fuck a chubby chick.
So long as we have a president that cares about all the people, I’ll continue to be a proud American.
@chronic_masticator - yup. plus, our national identity is what ties us all together, in general, isn’t it? family ties, anyone? doesn’t mean we agree with dad. etc.
I do not advocate a stance of “My country right or wrong?” NO One concept that seems foreign to so many today is that the government is of the people, by the people and for the people. To argue that we are not the government makes no sense to me. Governments, like people, tend to do some good and some bad things. Do I have pride in my government? Yes, whenever it does honorable deeds. Am I ashamed of my government? Yes, when it does dishonorable things.
@chronic_masticator - If you get an original copy of your birth certificate (not the copy they print off the system for you…the real one from when you were born), there’s names of banks on them that own the value of the birth certificate. And none of this was learned in school…as I said before. The NDAA funds the military and without it we wouldn’t have military? How was it funded before, then…? You need an entire new bill to fund the military? Which, by the way, how much of the military forces been used for defense only? It seems the military is being quite proactive in defense…on the offense rather than defense. Besides that, none of the wars we’re in are truly justified. Evil begets evil.
And no, I prefer to not be ruled over by “the Man,” but not because of anything I’ve learned, in school or elsewhere. I believe that I am my own person and I don’t need anyone ruling over me by force and threats of violence. I believe in my own morality and ability to make rational decisions, and not morality that’s laid out in arbitrary laws dictated by evil. Speaking of my own “unoriginal thoughts,” you’re nitpicking over what you want to debate about, instead of addressing everything I’ve said.
@vexations - Because, the government is no longer for the people, by the people…it’s for the corporations, by the corporations…and people are happy to turn a blind eye to it so long as they get to live in comfort. I’m all for liberty…but we no longer have any.
@plantinthewindow - I don’t believe in societal ties. I am an individual person who doesn’t let the ties of society bind me into what IT thinks I should be or think. I am not a sheep. I also don’t believe in family ties..I feel nothing for my mother, save contempt. She’s a miserable excuse for a human being.
@crazy2love - that’s not what I’m saying. of course, I’m very much my own self, and think for myself. what I’m saying is that even though we think for ourselves, we have connections to the people around us. if we reject others, we become trolls living under a bridge. it seems that we should somehow be about love and connecting to those around us, even if we don’t like them very much. when we are gracious to them, we receive graciousness in return. it encourages goodness in them. ?
@crazy2love - You need to check your reading comprehension skills, because I’ve answered everything. No, it doesn’t twist my gut to think about what happened to the Natives because it happened a kajillion years ago. What happened in the past does not define our country today. I’ve laid out all the things that the US does for the rest of the world, and your bitter Anarchist brain twists it into selfishness and greed. Dubya was and still is a twat. So is Mittens. The war we’re in is pointless, but Obama has been working hard on getting our troops home. It’s happening, you can’t deny it (isn’t that what you said about three times in your post?). For awhile, our military didn’t have any funds. Back in 2010 the Pentagon lost $2.3 trillion. No idea where it went. Pretty substantial military waste. The NDAA allows the military to be funded through taxpayer money, which all funds have to be authorized by Congress each year by January 1st or the Executive Branch cannot pay military wages. And nobody is ruling over you by force or threat of violence. If you honestly believe that they are, then you’re just another delusional conspiracy theorist, and I’m done.
I think being blindly supportive and proud of anything is kinda dumb.
Hey I concur! There’s some scary shit going on and not everyone is turning a blind eye.
I’m British and I can’t say I’m proud of this country, and I can’t say I’m not afraid. But at least we’re not alone in our thinking.
What liberty are you denied? If we allow corporations to run the government show it is because we are inactive. If we, as individuals abdicate our responsibility, government can become not “of the people.” Corporations do not cast a vote. If we accept their influence we get what they want, not what we want but I am free to make my own choices. Sorry you have lost yours or that you fear you are losing your liberty. The fear may be real, I do not deny that but the people still have power if they use it. @crazy2love -
I’ve been thinking about this whole national pride concept, too. I think you can find anything wrong with any country, especially with people who claim to be proud of it.
and it’s a conceited and selfish act. Think about it, one is proud of his/her nation (or whatever), some has too much that that’s all they talk about. That’s what eat, drink and sleep. They love their (whatever) so much, that they don’t really know how to love another (whatever). Some people could be so proud of who they are, that they just think everybody else is inferior.
Hm.. I guess I’m proud to be an American, to some degree. But maybe it’s not a genuine “proud”…? I don’t think about it too much, so I’m not sure why there’s this hint of national pride. Maybe I just feel like I’m supposed to have it, for whatever reason.
And I think a lot of people are…mm, ignorantly – maybe just naively – proud. Like, they’ve a skewed view on the world. Or maybe it’s not necessarily about the entire history of a nation or even necessarily what’s happening with the nation and the world presently. Maybe they’re just proud of other things in their life…and they’ve extrapolated it and they’re proud of the nation that let them accomplish it? If that makes sense.Know what, I don’t know what I’m going on about XD
That being said, about your conversation. I don’t really think it’s /funny/, but I guess I get why you might say that? Maybe. Yeah, she doesn’t actually counter your points – maybe because she legitimately can’t, maybe because she doesn’t feel that she even needs to. Some things, for some people, are things to believe in – no matter how naive their beliefs may be to others. Maybe it’s not about what national pride physically (in some metaphorical sense of the word) represents, but what it symbolizes to someone.
@chronic_masticator - Actually, you didn’t respond to the further development of knowledge or what I said about the US and other industrialized nations keeping African nations poor for their own benefit. The military is funded by taxpayer money without the NDAA, is it not? The government doesn’t really produce any money. Everything the government spends on anything is either from taxpayers or loans from other countries. As for not being ruled by force or the threat of violence..that can be proven. If you don’t follow a law, you can be held at gunpoint, you can be shot, you can be forcefully taken and thrown in jail. How is that not violence, and the initiation of it at that? Let’s say that you’re going to say we should all follow every arbitrary law and be law abiding citizens. What if tomorrow, they created a law that was so immoral you couldn’t stand the thought of it. What would you do? Would you follow it anyway? Or would you break it because it violates your personal morals? If you break it, you’ll be facing the barrel of a gun. Let’s take driving. The law says you have to have a driver’s license. But does that card really say that you’re a good driver? HELL NO. There are TONS of bad drivers. So what is the purpose of having that card. Let’s say that you’re a really good driver, you’ve been driving on the farm since you were 10, and you felt like you’re a good driver, you know you are, so you don’t need to take a test to be certified with a stupid card. Even though you’re an excellent driver and you get caught driving without a license, you get a ticket. If you don’t pay it, you have to go to court. If you don’t go to court, you get a warrant for your arrest. If you resist arrest, you can be beaten to restrain you and possibly shot. Behind every law you can think of, there’s violence enforcing it. I don’t know how anyone can deny that. However, it’s up to an individual whether or not they’re okay with that.
@vexations - No one has Agency anymore. We probably did when the government wasn’t so large. Freedoms are taken away all the time with the enforcement of laws. As an example, income taxes didn’t exist in this country until 1913. You could actually keep every cent you earned at your job. Now, if you don’t pay your taxes, you get into serious trouble. My dad isn’t a Libertarian or an Anarchist, and he has said multiple times that he would just like to keep the money he earns…but he either pays them, or gets in trouble with the law. There’s a decision there…but is it a good one?
@mismatched_hats - It was more of a sarcastic laugh, to be honest..kind of like, really?..who does that?
I’m not really sure I should comment on this, considering some of the comments are really annoying me. What I will say is that being Native myself, that to other people it may seem what happened to Natives is in the past, but it’s not. That is all I will say. If people want to know the truth, they will do their research.
I would like to just note here that first two things to get thrown under the bus for a democrat to get elected these days is Civil Liberties and the Anti-war platform.
No nation is perfect. I am sure you like something about America.
There are a lot of personal freedoms that America gives, but you’re completely right about the fact that this nation was founded by bloodshed just like every other country out there. And today, America’s foreign policy sickens me so much, I have to wonder why people are still “proud” of this country. How can you be proud of drone strikes in Afghanistan? Of Iraq? Of ignoring Palestine’s needs yet continuing to give funds to Israel which is a more developed country? How can you be proud of the fact that we’re the reason why we’re in so much mess with the Middle East? How can anyone be proud of the fact that we “help” countries out by giving them money but in essence, we’re just loaning them money that they have to pay back in tenfold which means they get to drain their resources?
This is what I think of every time somebody says, “AMERICA HOME OF THE BRAVE LAND OF THE FREE!!” Well then, why can’t you just let every other country out there be free to do what they want? Stop being a policing country.
As much as all that is said, I live here and I still appreciate the fact that I’m allowed to say what I want and am allowed to criticize all I want. But this is slight compensation for what’s going on out there.
These articles and blogs are truly enough for me for a day.
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