September 12, 2010
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I Think I Must Be Un-American
I’m not even sure how I should start this post. What Dan said in his post about Muslims burning American flags struck a chord with me. Then, I just watched A Mighty Heart, with Angelina Jolie, about the American journalist beheaded in Pakistan this morning. I took a bubble bath, and thought about war, and what I think about it. I don’t agree with war. Cody and I were talking about the community center near ground zero the other day, and he said, “religion is the basis of most wars.” Which is true. I thought about that. I also thought about how compassionate I am, and how much of a humanitarian I am. I don’t believe in anyone being harmed in any way, for any reason. I don’t want people to throw a bunch of “what-ifs” in my face. I planned on writing a post specific to those thoughts for tomorrow. Which I will probably still do.
I re-read Dan’s post today after watching A Mighty Heart and reading a little more about Daniel Pearl. He was murdered because he was a Jewish journalist in Pakistan investing links between the shoe bomber and Al-Qaeda.
The reasons for these kinds of crimes go back far and run deep. I don’t pretend to know everything. I don’t act like I do. But I believe what’s in my heart, and I believe that all of this is wrong. It’s how I feel.
I also feel that the reason there is so much hatred and unforgiving is that people don’t truly know what’s going on. They only know what they hear on the news. The average person does not seek out information, and educate themselves. I have been, pretty much all day.
What people don’t seem to understand is that Muslims did not attack the United States on 9/11. Al-Qaeda did. A terrorist group. A terrorist group that is dedicated to stop the spread of “Western influence.” Because Al-Qaeda is also a Muslim group, let’s take a look into that.
I didn’t go that far back as far as history goes. There were several parts that I skimmed over. During the Iran-Iraq war, the US secretly (not so secretly anymore) backed Iraq. We gave (sold) them the weapons to do it. Then when Iraq invaded Kuwait, the US supported Kuwait, and invaded Iraq, known as Operation Desert Storm. So do you see how that would be like a kick in the teeth? This is the briefest explanation of the chain of events, and it’s more complicated than this. I am not sure who or what started this.
It kind of seems like the US, once again, stuck its hands where they don’t belong… half a world away, separated by oceans and seas. I don’t believe that the United States should be sticking their nose where it doesn’t belong. I believe in defending ourselves, absolutely, without a doubt. But what did the Iran-Iraq war have to do with our national security? Was there a possibility of an attack against the US? Maybe? Does it make me un-American to think we have no business in affairs between other countries? Are there other countries who do this as much as the United States? Who are they? Sometimes, I am ashamed to be called an American. Who does our government think we are? We are one of the youngest countries out there, literally. Why do we feel the need to shove our ideologies down the throats of other countries? Oh wait, we did that when we took the land over from the Native Americans. I forgot. Silly me. I guess this means I should join Al-Qaeda. That was completely sarcastic, by the way.
So the US did this thing to countries that are mostly Islamic in belief. Can you not see how there would be Muslims out there who would burn the American flag? They did that to us. Now, we do it to them. Do two wrongs make a right?
You know what I see? A cycle of hatred, fear, and misunderstanding. I don’t condone the actions of either side. I guess you could call me a peace-loving-hippie-freak. I don’t condone violence of any kind. I also don’t condone hatred. I don’t think any of it is helpful or useful in any way.
Like I said, I don’t pretend to know everything. I only know what’s in my heart. My heart tells me it’s wrong to judge all Muslims because of Al-Qaeda. My heart tells me these wars are wrong. Maybe this post is way off base. Maybe we all are.
Comments (53)
I think the other thing that really sucks is that people assume that because someone is Arabic they are necessarily a) Middle Eastern and b) Muslim. But that’s just not the case. Nor is it the case that all Muslims are Middle Eastern. Most of Eastern Africa is nominally Muslim, and no one looks at every African and thinks “TERRORIST!”
…
It all just pisses me off, and I’m tired of it.
Absolutely, 100% agreed.
I think people are confusing American with Christian fundamentalist. But Christians of all people should know better than the judge and condemn.
I don’t judge anybody unless they’ve given me reason to. I don’t give a fuck what they are. I’m God-less, and everybody is equal.
This is perfect.
“the reason there is so much hatred and unforgiving is that people don’t
truly know what’s going on. They only know what they hear on the news.” That’s a common factor in most fear, intolerance, racism etc. Sad.
You are not un-American. In fact, if America practised what she prides herself in, you would be a most American American. The only reason that you may feel “un-American” is because much of America today does not value freedom, tolerance, unity. Americans, I mean.
good post.
I believe you’re a kind person who wants peace. But in reality, that’s untainable because people differ in so many ways, and the worst type of person is the one who wants attention no matter what, even when they do the worst thing ( ie; killing people overseas ) and want to be… say, rewarded for it? or, atleast, having people trying to UNDERSTAND their point of view as to why they did it. Well, people really can’t understand the view point of a terrorist. Cause it doesn’t exsist. And people should’ve stopped at that point. But no, people want a legitimate reason and they couldn’t find anything better than to blame the actions of terrorists but on a religion that those terrorists don’t even belong to via principle.
…I think I’m drifting away from the point…Ok, so what I’m trying to say is, I know you mean well but, America helping out countries overseas is not a bad thing. Also, I’m sure we all know that America is the kind of country that truly wants to be number 1 and that’s not a bad thing, really. I believe that America understands that to be the first, We need to reach countries all over this world. Even when said countries at a state of war. But that’s not even relevant because the fact that America took sides 20+ years ago against a country It used to support before got absolutely nothing to do with why some people hate America. Some people just want to blame. Hate. And they would find anything to be provoking so they could channel that hatred and feelings of frustration out.
But really, it’s not even about America, Islam or any of that. It’s just about sad people all over the world in need to let their anger out and they just don’t know how to do that right. Whether it be people in america who think that they hate people because of their religion or people overseas who think they hate people just because they’re from America.
I don’t have any History background and have done very little research into the facts. I do know that I like you don’t agree with war. I guess you could call me a peace keeping hippie too!!!
Religion has not been the cause of many wars; people have been. They have simply used religion as a crutch and a basis to enable their motives.
The U.S. believes it’s entitled to the world because despite being on of the youngest countries, it has been one of the most successful (in terms of quality of life, economy, etc.)
@quodmenutriut - Agreed.
I served in the military but I do have such mixed views about war. In general, I think the U.S. should do more to avoid the going into war. I realize the rational for us getting involved is that we waited too long with Hitler. We thought it did not impact us so we looked the other way and tried to avoid the war. But finally Pearl Harbor was hit and we had to jump in.
The thinking is that the U.S. was too slow to respond and that caused two major world wars. Now some think that we have avoided larger wars because here and there we have jumped in when necessary. It is hard to tell if that is the case or not. I wish we could have just sent assassination teams in to get the people who were behind 9/11 instead of sending in troops. I also believe in a narrow view of fighting terrorist. I think it is unwise to take on all terrorists. Instead we should go after the people responsible for 9/11 and leave the rest alone. But again, some would say the same approach led to Hitler killing over 6 million Jews.
I have mixed feelings about war. I know soldiers… I feel that people who preach against war are undermining the sacrifice soldiers are making.
But I know what you mean, and agree with you one hundred percent. Al Qaeda attacked us. And you can’t judge all muslims because of this.
Yes, I agree with @m_kabs - its people that cause war, not religion. But other than that yes, I do agree with you. Taking Arabic and learning about the culture has greatly increased my knowledge of the people. Its a whole freaking different world than people think, its not just black and white, its so much more. And I’m going to Jordan this summer, I can’t wait.
I think you are right on base and if enough people thought like you we wouldn’t be in these hate-fests all over the world and here at home.
“‘religion is the basis of most wars.’ Which is true”
Actually it really far from true. Something like 4% of all wars had anything at all to do with religion. I did an entry on that. It was very well documented. While many tired to say I was wrong I had the record histories of over 1700 wars in the Encyclopedia of War and they had nothing.
One thing I can say with great certainty. We will see peace in the world long before we ever see the Vikings win a Superbowl.
@TheSutraDude - That’s just fucked up!!! lol!!!
@crazy2love -
I don’t think there is a right answer. If we DO get into other countries’ business, they get pissed for us meddling. If we DON’T, they get pissed because we helped someone else and now they feel abandoned. So there isn’t a safe place to be.
But I don’t think that them being angry at us for something that happened a while back is in any way justifying them blowing up the World Trade Centers. I realize that’s not what you mean to say, and that you don’t support it. But I feel like… the way you said it, that is… it feels like you’re saying we should see it coming, or we could have stopped it.
Anyway, I know it’s a terrorist group and not all Muslims or even most Muslims, and I think most people know that. But because the group is comprised of people who say or believe they’re terrorizing in the name of Islam (I’m sure it’s just a scapegoat), we become more cautious about people who share a very important trait with those people who attacked us. Which I think is natural and not wrong. I’m not saying people should go around saying, ‘THOSE DAMN MUSLIMS, THEY’RE ALL HATEMONGERS’ or anything, but feeling less at ease with one of Muslim faith than one of, say, Jewish faith makes sense to me, because it is something we KNOW is part of the terrorist group and we don’t want it to touch us. It’s fear, really, not hate, and people are channeling it veryyyyy badly.
@TheTheologiansCafe - I agree with you. Especially about the assassination teams; I mean, they get the chance to hide once our troops march in so conspicuously. And that COMPLETELY slowed the process. We could have sent in an A-Team level squad, shot them down, and gone on with our lives.
@m_kabs - THIS.
Peace.
It’s all I wish for.
It is obvious you are a very mature lady, with a lot of empathy and compassion. I hope all your wishes come true.
America makes it’s bread and butter off oil and war. So it’s in our best interest to keep the pot stirring out there.
You refer to her.
Peace is an unattainable dream as long as we have a government, also, I don’t believe people are “naturally good”, so anarchy isn’t a good idea either. Thus, peace in the world can never happen as long as people exist.
No, you’re just a fucking humanitarian.
By the way, the definition of peace is really fucking odd. I, for example, am happiest in war, happiest with a gun in hand, entertaining thoughts of destruction and chaos. I’m happier playing a war video game than anything else, I’m happiest with a mind filled with hatred. If I was male, I wouldn’t even think of going to college, I would just make the money to get to Russia and join their military to be a slave to the Russian frontline. I wouldn’t entertain the thought of college.
Anyway, I kinda feel like anyone who honestly defends most Muslims hasn’t bothered to read into what they’re defending–an extremist group. You wouldn’t defend a Nazi [because we self-admit we are extremists], so why a Muslim, who hides and says they don’t support their comrades?
War will forever be a part of humanity–just as it is with any pack animal.
@TheTheologiansCafe - Wow Dan, I didn’t know you were in the military. That’s quite insightful. You get a few respect points for that.
I wouldn’t say I’m Unamerican. I strongly believe in American ideals as enshrined by our founding documents, but I also strong disagree with the partisan right in this country. To be frank, it scares me and it scares the world. A New Zealand friend of mine was terrified of a particular conservative christine church which sounded, to me in America, is featherweight compared to the filth coming from our media and bible thumpers. Their vision of America is a totally different place from how America should be.
@Starshine_Faerie - That’s a tough area. I believe we are supporting a lot of soldiers by protesting a meaningless war. I can see your point, and even agree to an extent, but I tend to lean toward the prior belief. I have too many soldier friends who did not realize what they signed up for, and still cannot talk about the horrors they faced. By supporting the war, I feel like we are supporting pain inflicted onto them.
Great entry.
@m_kabs - True.
Wars happen. You can either defend yourself or submit to the will of others. You clearly prefer the latter. It’s a life choice. I don’t judge. But for myself, I see that virtually every nation dominated by Islam is under Sharia law. I see that the Muslim religion has killed more people than any other worldview, including Communism, Fascism, and yes, Christianity. I see that peaceful Muslims are the exception in their religion, not the norm. I see that they put their women in beekeeper suits and favor stratified political systems based on race.
When it comes to let them have their way or retain the Western way of life, you can bet I’ll advocate violence at the top of my lungs.
The US should just never interfere in other countries’ business..If there is a problem or situation in a country , we have the UN for that.. I don’t see France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands or Spain sending troops to some country except for Humanitarian help (like if there was some sort of earthquake or other disaster going on..)
As for the whole muslim matter.. Real muslims don’t hate christians, protestants or any other people with different beliefs.. One of the main things that is written in the koran is: RESPECT FOR OTHER RELIGIONS. But all through history man has started wars in the name of God or any other religion, for example the crusades.. FYI the Catholic Church has done many wrong things too.. And the Islam is not a TERRORIST GROUP.. It is a religionMaybe this is rude but , if the US would stop thinking about getting oil or other resources in some countries and using war/political problems as an excuse to go there and get it.. Then maybe you wouldn’t have send so many troops over there and wasted tax money and lost so many lives.. Ooh of course 9/11 is a great reason to attack them.. BUT we all know 9/11 was a sort of set up plan with many political reasons and goals behind it.. (I don’t even wanna get started with all the stuff the Americans did in Vietnam, Cambodia and Korea..)
I mostly agree, but there’re a few historical points that grated me to no end. First off, few wars can actually be called wars of religion. Religion is a useful tool for recruitment and legitimacy, but doesn’t hold a candle to good old fashioned political interests when it comes to starting a war. (Crusades included.) Secondly, the United States is older than most countries out there by far. To say that the France of today is the Sun King’s France or that the modern German state at all resembles the Holy Roman Empire is ridiculous. So far as modern nations with “modern” systems of government, the US is actually on the older end of the spectrum. No one’s changed the actual form of government since the Revolution, and we’ve even survived our only civil war, which is really just astonishing. Europe likes to tell us that we’re young because we don’t have the rotting corpse of Rome around our backyards, but it isn’t a legitimate claim to make when talking about continuous governments. Don’t buy the hype – our culture’s young, but our nation’s old. Finally, I just wanted to add the US also did this sort of thing almost everywhere around the world in one way or another. Just look at the mess that was South America. Basically, if there was either oil or Communism, we gave someone there guns to help us out. I can’t say whether or not this sort of proactive approach is useful or not, considering it may still be too soon to tell.
You’re right that the US wasn’t attacked by a united islamic front but by a specific terrorist group, and as you said, their goals are not religious, but political; they want an end to western interference in the middle east. Every war is really about money/territory/power/whatever you want to call it – it’s all the same in the end. Religion is merely the cover story used to gain popular support, Unfortunately, this is the part that gets publicized, and it turns something limited in scope into an all-out war between major world demographics because something that has little to do with most people becomes intensely personal to millions easily. I’m not really sure of a good solution.
People like to hold onto negative emotions. They’ll find any excuse. Right now the scapegoat is the American Muslim Community. It’s very sad.
i’m starting to like you more
@Daniella_Aalyiah_Li - This is something that many forget. I have been toying with the idea of doing a post outlining just how utterly different life is for “them.” It’s to a point where trying to look at them based on our own standards (as people living in Britain or America), is foolish.
Finally someone wrote something worth a read! Thankyou.
your heart seems say the right thing. Muslim isn’t actually terrorist. They whom said so just don’t understand what Islam itself. There’s a terrorist group named Al-Qaeda. But who knows who’s in the back of Al-Qaeda? is it possible for muslim to destroy and shock the world by attacking WTC? As a muslim, I even would curse myself if the real muslim do something like that.
(sorry, english isn’t my native language)
You are not un-American, you are merely a person who cares, and thinks, deeply.
@TheTheologiansCafe - As you very accurately point out, it’s a very complicated, messy situation. Do we fight? Do we not fight? Sometimes it feels like you’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t. Years from now historians will look back on this time period with the benefit of hindsight and a broader perspective and come to their conclusions. For now we struggle on, trying to make the right decisions. I’m just thankful that we live in a country where we can have the debate and question the actions of those in power without the fear of being imprisoned or worse. Even when I don’t agree with the actions of some of my fellow Americans or some of the political leadership, I’m still very thankful to live in a society that grants me the kinds of freedoms that we have in the good ole USA.
)
Liberal AND a Vikings fan. *Swoon*
I think during the Bush years I burned my passion on the Middle East situation on all three ends, and I’ve been hard-pressed to raise my ire on the subject anymore. I think you brought up some great points, however.
Back when people were first making claims that we need to invade Iraq because they had WMDs, my response was “duh… we gave them to him!” When Osama bin Laden became America’s Most Wanted and everyone was calling him a Muslim extremist, I was amazed that there was no word on how he was armed, financed and trained by the CIA.
Despite all this, I still think the religious aspect plays a part. Religion makes it much easier to declare an “us vs. them” scenario. I don’t necessarily think it’s Islam specifically… I personally think if the roles were reversed and Christians lived in third-world nations being treated like this by an Islamic superpower, we’d have basically the same situation going on.
People, follow these steps: Remove head from ass. Clean fecal matter out of ears. Open eyes. See what that does for you.
I find it funny how the U.S. supplied Osama bin Laden and the Taliban to fight the Russians.
I was always on the fence when it came to the recent wars that is until I saw a couple former students return after serving a tour in Iraq. They were forever changed. Hell, one of them looked so aged that he looked older than me. A 20 year old shouldn’t have gray hair and wrinkles.
For what it’s worth, Bill Clinton once said that his biggest regret about his Presidency was not dealing with Osama Bin Ladin sooner. So yes, our Government knew there was a problem, and they went on a hope and a prayer that the problem would take care of itself. Or rather, that the countries hosting the problem would tend to it. The reality is, these terrorists are a problem. I understand why you don’t want us at war, and I also understand that not all Muslims are terrorists (fractionally speaking, the percentage is minute). The unfortunate aspect of this, though, is that the terrorists who DO exist want America dead and gone. Not just the Soldiers, not just the Christians, not just the Government- the whole thing. They view us as the ‘Great Satan,’ and consider us the primary problem with the entire world. While we are, arguably, a volatile society at times, do we really deserve to die piece meal at the hands of religious extremists? Do the people living in the countries they are over running deserve to die at their hands? Are we supposed to attempt to prevent another 9/11, or would it be better if we sat here and waited for the inevitable? And if WE aren’t allowed to attempt to stop them, then who is?
You also should’ve dug a little further and found that we’re also responsible for creating the one great monster we’ve been hunting for. OBL.
We created him to fight the Russians when they invaded Afghanistan.. because it’s a part of military protocol to create local resistance as proxies against the actions of other countries that go against our national interests. The only thing is, billions of dollars later and years of training later, OBL turned it all against us.. also because we invaded Iraq after taking their side.
It’s all very ugly and it surprises me that more people aren’t disgusted by this and other actions that our national government has done and still does, while acting in our “interest”.
The only thing is.. it’s difficult to say what will solve the problem we created. We cannot continue to have our armed forces globe trotting and chasing random arabs and africans that get name dropped by CIA dopes. We simply cannot afford that. Everytime we catch or kill one, 3-5 more show up on the list anyway.
At the same time.. it’s too late to turn over a new leaf and negotiate or.. change our ways of securing interests.. because the monsters are there and the damage is done. That might be more of a start to it, though.. because we see clearly that war isn’t the best answer.
Violence is never the answer…unless football is involved.
It’s true that many wars are fought over religion, but not all religion brings war. I too believe in peace and peaceful methods of expression. I’ve said before when two people that disagree fight each other physically you just end up with two bloody people that disagree with each other. Physical violence solves nothing, in fact only serves to make the problem worse. A religion is essentially a belief in a way of life, or how life ‘should’ be lived. Looking at it that way one could say that if you believe in peace then peace is your religion and it would be quite hypocritical to fight a war over the religion of peace.
Personally I have nothing against flag burning. In truth burning a flag is a very non-violent method of speaking your mind. The more people eliminate the ability to demonstrate peacefully the more people will turn to violence to get their word out.
I see that you might consider yourself un-American. Know that there are others out there that believe in peace and allowing others to live the life they choose to live without conflict. Technically I don’t consider myself American or un-American, I don’t generally identify myself with group mentalities. I am an individual, I am not American, I am me.
P.S. It might interest you to know that the US also put Ahmadinejad in power.
@PervyPenguin - It’s actually a very common opinion.
Completely agree. A lot of Americans who generally think Muslims countries are little ingrates and are very intolerant forget that they’ve only been like that ever since America dipped their hands in it trying to so-call “help” them.
@m_kabs - Agreed. I was going to say that too! Lol
I actually had a conversation with someone on that..honestly, I don’t like war either but when it comes right down to it..we need it. It’s a unnecessary evil that we must carry around. Because people will never stop having wars. That’s just how we are. That’s how it always is. Unfortunately, we have no choice but to get involved in the affairs of the world. Pretending that it doesn’t involve us is childish really. We can’t do that anymore. It’s just that you can’t please people by doing this and doing that. All countries unfortunately, meddle in the affairs of other countries especially when they pose a threat to the other countries. It’s just natural to wanna protect our own country or protect the world from them. Because one country can fuck it up for the rest of the world seriously. We are one people.
You know I think religion is a cause of a lot of wars, but more than that I think money is. I know that there are under cover financial reasons for most everything people do. I agree with everything you say, mostly I despise that the U.S. thinks that the way we do it is the ONLY way and everybody else should do it too. Who are we to say that? Maybe things are not working out so well for other countries, but they don’t need us shoving ours down their throat. I think lots of people hate “americans” for that very reason.
@TheTheologiansCafe - wow, that’s some bizarre logic right there, by my way of thinking.
Perhaps we are from different PLANETS.
Nobody likes war, except perhaps the mentally unbalanced. But sometimes
we are forced into war–either fight or be conquered by someone like
Hitler, Attila, Stalin or Mussolini.
About Islam: I would suggest you read about the history of Islam from the time
it was founded by Muhammad around 300 A.D. Also study the biography of the man Muhammad himself. But to truly understand
Muslims, one must read the Quran–not scan through it–but read it.
I have my own opinion about Islam, which I will keep to myself, since I know that it is nearly impossible to present facts and change the minds of those who already have their minds made up. Most people who–on their own– study that religion are shocked and surprised,by what they learn.