October 13, 2010
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Suicide
I had an argument with Cody today. We were talking about bullying gay kids. And suicide.
He thinks that it’s their fault they kill themselves. He said that people have the power to change things. I told him that you can’t talk about it with authority unless you’ve experienced it. He said that he’s seen it first hand.
Well, bravo. Good for you. Seeing something and feeling it are two very, very different things.
Unless you’ve felt how it is to be suicidal, you can’t talk about it like you know what it’s all about. He made it sound like it’s so easy to just change the way you think.
It’s not easy.
When you experience such a deep, dark despair, it’s like a vortex of nothing. It’s absolutely terrifying. Unless you’ve been there, you can’t just say someone needs to change it. It’s like outer space, with no stars and no planets. It’s just….nothing. It’s a void of everything. There’s either no feeling, or way too much. Sometimes it bounces between nothing and everything.
He says suicide doesn’t solve YOUR problems.
Well, that’s not how suicidal people think. They feel like they are a burden to everyone around them. They truly believe that everyone will benefit from their death. They wouldn’t have to deal with them anymore. Wouldn’t have to deal with the mood swings. With being depressed. We who are depressed, we know that we are a burden to those around us. That we drag others down into our pit of blackness. We feel there is absolutely no hope for people like us. That nothing will ever be okay. We don’t believe people who tell us differently. Then those people get tired of trying to help us, and they leave. Everyone leaves the terminally depressed.
Being darkly depressed was more terrifying than fearing for my life when I lived with my mother. The absence of all feelings was horrifying. Sometimes I would surface from this fog and become afraid for myself. Then I would sink again. When you feel dead already, what’s wrong with murdering your skin and bones? When you feel dead inside, your spirit and soul, it’s all you think about. Why are you even here, when you feel nothing? You aren’t happy, you aren’t sad. You aren’t anything. You just…. aren’t. It’s like you shouldn’t exist.
I don’t even know how I got better. I don’t remember. I don’t know when I got out of that dark depression. I fear it coming back. I still have very little hope for myself. I dream about marrying a wonderful man and having kids, a family. But I don’t think it will ever happen. People tell me I’m still young. When does still being young STOP being young?
Anyway. Unless you know how it feels to be suicidal, you can’t talk about it like you know it. People who say it’s their own fault for killing themselves piss me off. It’s something darker than you can even comprehend.
Comments (22)
I completely agree.
In response to Cody:
Bullshit.
Having been there, done that,
I have to say your description is perfect.
Evocative, and spot on.
I’m only sad that we both know this from personal experience.
Completely agreed.
Seeing something and feeling it are two different things.
I completely agree.
I have never been suicidal; and it’s hard for me to wrap my head around what drives people to suicide. I have felt despair, frustration, feelings of being forsaken, lonliness… but I have never felt that suicide was my only option, although I have sometimes wished for death.
But regardless of, I would never presume to judge someone as being too weak-minded to overcome something. I do believe it is darker than that.
I’ve been there, dealed with that. You explained it a lot better than I ever could have. It is like a vortex of nothingness…darkness. It’s a horrible place to be.
I’ve been there too, and I know how it feels. this statement thorouhghly pisses me off too. I know a few (but really not many) people who have been through depression and dark times and expect others to just get through it too (this is also why abusive patterns repeat so often I think). well even IF someone had a dark time, they are still not in the postion of this person who killed themselves. It is still ‘darker then they comprhend’ the seem to forget that throw away everything they have, their whole LIFE all their chances. ‘This’ is stronger tha our elemantary instinct, the survival instinct. And those who don’t even have the slightest idea about this feeling are even worse. No matter who says this it is just so plainly arrogant and really entirely STUPID.
It’s wrong to boil suicide down to a question of who is responsible. Of course the person who commits suicide bears the ultimate responsibility for that act of finality. But the community around that person bears the responsibility for failing to be of help as the walls of depression close in, or, much worse, agitating the fragility of a desperate mind with cruelty and apathy. People who have never experienced depression have no idea what that even means – an agony that spreads from the pit of soul through the whole body. The unmistakable sensation of being, as you pointed out, an incurable burden. To recognize when a person is on that edge is not so simple, but not impossible. Who then is responsbile and what must be done to prevent the worsening condition? I don’t know, but empathy, compassion, forgiveness – these are qualities that challenge our communities.
I read a post on Xanga recently about a guy asking if mental illness was real or not. He said he’d been in the military so naturally he attitude was to suck it up and get over it, and it makes me sad that people are THAT ignorant about the power of emotion. It is exactly that attitude that makes suicidal feelings worse.
I think you’re both right. I’ve never tried to kill myself, so I can’t say that I know how it feels; it may well be a quale, but I’ve no intention of finding out. There’s no doubt that suicidal depression is a strong influence in your mind, overpowering all your other thoughts. Still, you choose your own actions. All I mean to say is that I don’t think that “It’s hopeless and out of your hands, so you should give up now.” is the right message for people who are feeling that way. You choose to survive. The job of everyone else is just to make sure you don’t regret it.
Suicide is not the best answer, and I am not condoning it at all, but I’ve heard people say that those who commit suicide are selfish because they don’t think to how it affects their loved ones and the people left behind. Having been suicidal in the past, this statement puzzles me. It’s quite obvious it’s said by people who have never felt that oppressive darkness which is just soul-crushing. There is no “selfishness” involved in the person who kills themself: sure it’s incredibly painful to the people left behind, but if a person who commits suicide is feeling so beyond hope that death is the only clear choice, then the speaker should try to empathize and sympathize with them instead of pointing out (in a potentially whiny way) how bad THEY feel be being left behind. The speaker has obviously never felt that bad in their life. Lucky for them. Some people think that “bad days” are the same for everyone. Not true: my ”bad days” would probably scare the pants off of a lot of people who have never suffered Depression [This is probably coming out all wrong...and someone is bound to take it the wrong way. My apologies in advance.]
Having admitted to a friend once that I’d had suicidal thoughts only to have her tell me to “stop being rediculous and get over it,” I can say it’s no laughing matter. It’s mind blowing the number of folks that don’t realize just how serious depression is, and sadly they’ll never know until they either experience themselves or loose a friend/loved one to suicide. It’s a shame that it takes that, but that’s how it is.
I’ve just learned to take each low a step at a time and try to get through it. And when I learn that a “friend” thinks I’m being overdramatic, I distance myself from them. No need confiding in someone that doesn’t really care enough to think I’m being serious.
I agree with both of you, and I have felt it first hand. I made a decision. I overcame. Some people truly can’t, but others can. It’s a matter of strength and I found mine. Nothing can ever be applied to everyone, hence why I agree with you, but I also agree with the people who say it’s selfish, in a way. If I committed suicide as planned, my sister would have been completely alone and would have had to fend for herself, at the age of three. Because I had a responsibility to her, I chose to keep living. She needed me more than I needed that escape.
I have sort of a mix of feelings here. I HAVE experienced it and quite often, I find myself slipping back to it. In fact, my life is falling apart right now because it got so unbearable on Monday that I let it slip to my doctor. I have tried to kill myself 10 times (and failed, obviously) I am more than familiar with this darkness. You’re boyfriend (though totally insensitive) is kind of right. I feel a tremendous amount of guilt because, in the lighter times, I think “I have tried to kill my parents’ only child.” despite the fact that it never previously crossed my mind. Granted, this is totally counterproductive as it fuels the hatred, but the point that I’m making is that I really can’t blame anybody but myself. I am the one who tried to kill me. Even if I thought I was totally worthless, a burden, and that the world would undoubtedly be better off without me, I am still the one who did it. I am the only one at fault. You are correct though, in stating that it is not easy. I’m in the process of trying to change things right now. I will be totally honest with you: It’s the hardest frickin’ thing I’ve ever tried to do. It’s a challenge and trying to turn on the “existence” switch and turn the “worth” knob to be in balance so as not to be subject to narcissism or self-loathing in addition to turning the care dial to a point where I care if I live or die but and not obsessive. Then You have to turn the “guilt” level way down just above “conscience” while simultaneously rewiring the coping mechanisms and pulling on the “drive” and “hope” levers, making them work overtime. It’s NOT an easy thing to do at ALL. That being said, it is still POSSIBLE to overcome these thought and feelings. In order to do that, you must in actuality change your brain chemistry, but it can be done. You CAN change how you think. As I have said, you are both right. He may have been insensitive, but to say that he is wrong is to give up all hope.
@vajbff - Wow, that’s really sad that your “friend” would treat you that way. Sadly, that attitude seems to be prevalent nowadays. About a year ago, a friend of mine sent mass goodbye texts before attempting to take her life. I was the only one who went to her house to make sure she was okay (she didn’t specify that she wanted to kill herself, but her messages were pretty obvious as to her intent). Everyone else said “Oh, I thought she was just trying to get attention”. :/
It’s sad when you try to reach out to someone only to be shut down and told that you’re “being ridiculous”, which doesn’t help at all.
Rational people on the surface of normal can see the sun shining, can see the miracles that happen every day and know there are so many reasons to keep on living even when it storms. Someone lost in the trenches of depression see nothing but darkness – their perception is so drastically altered that they truly view suicide as their only viable option. It’s a horrible thing to experience, especially horrible for those who never escape from the darkness and end their potential.
I used to believe more like Cody, that suicide was absolutely selfish, a gutless coward’s way out. Then my best friend since kindergarten killed herself in 2009. We had been friends for 14 years when it happened and it literally shattered me to the core. Since then, I’ve gotten a pretty good idea of how she must have felt. When you’re in that suicidal mentality, you don’t believe you’re going to hurt anyway – quite the opposite actually, you truly believe you will be doing your family & friends a service by removing the burden of your existence from their lives.
I still grapple with extremely complicated feelings regarding suicide. On the one hand, I still feel it is a selfish act. But I’m okay right now – so I can see why it’s selfish. Idk. It’s just a very complex thing, suicide.
Bullseye!!! You nailed it!
I totally agree
I think it’s a choice but that doesn’t invalidate the pain and emptiness that person felt up until that point. It doesn’t make the bullying or the abuse or whatever it was that caused it okay, and doesn’t take away the responsibility of the person who inflicted the pain (if there was such a person, which there isn’t always). The mental state in which someone has to be in in order to consider suicide may not be a choice, but the action is. I’m not saying this to be insensitive; I still think we should empathize with those who have been in this position and that anyone who says that they should just get over it or whatever is just acting like a jerk.
I have attempted suicide more then once. I am a burden on people. But I just won’t die apparently. I think you are spot on here. I feel for those kids so much. We are not selfish we are being selfless.
Putting your own wants and needs above those of others is selfish by definition. I understand that often people who are suicidal simply aren’t able to see that their death might hurt others. Even if someone who is suicidal *believes* that no one cares for them and they wouldn’t be missed, that’s almost always untrue. How is that not self-serving? However, the assumption is that something “selfish” is automatically negative somehow. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to want to end one’s pain – it just sucks when the only way out you can see is to kill yourself. Like you said, there’s a HUGE difference between knowing someone who is experiencing depression/suicidal ideation and experiencing it for yourself.
I partially agree. I’ve felt that extreme pain a few different times in my life, but I reached out. All of the people who’ve recently killed themselves had people that cared about them (we’ve seen them all on the news; their parents, their friends, etc). A few years ago, my heart was breaking but my mind told me that I was better than the people who felt the need to hurt me which made me start talking to people who cared about me. In no way am I defending bullies, but those who commit suicide do have a choice. I think it’s so sad when people take things like that personally. It’s usually the one who’s tormenting them that has a problem. I think it would have been extremely selfish for me to take my life, seeing as my parents have already lost a child. I felt awful for even considering such a thing.